Neo-Nazism in Satanism

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Neo-Nazism in Satanism

Post by electricwildflower on Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:29 pm

This was copy and pasted from Theistic Satanism.com Anyway i though this was an interesting discussion to have and to see what everyones personal views are on Neo-Nazism in Satanism is.



Satanists include people of many different political persuasions. Alas, some rather vocal people in the Satanist scene are neo-Nazis.

I do not believe that Satan champions any one particular political persuasion. I see Satan as an entity who encourages us humans to think for ourselves and to figure out for ourselves what kind of political system would work best for us. The answer to that question will vary from one society to another and from one era to another. So, I would not make such claims as "no true Satanist could ever be a neo-Nazi."

But, personally, I feel that blending Satanism with neo-Nazism is a very stupid idea.

Nearly all forms of Satanism - even the kinds endorsed by most neo-Nazi Satanists - pay at least lip service to the idea that Satan stands for things like freedom, individuality, and thinking for oneself. All these things are contrary to the Procrustean mentality that is intrinsic to neo-Nazism.

Quite a few neo-Nazis believe in restricting individual freedom severely, in some incredibly petty ways, in the name of preserving traditional Western culture. For example, in the utopia of at least one leading neo-Nazi group, young white people would be allowed to listen only to music of purely Western origin. White kids would not be allowed to listen to music with any African influences, such as rock. This same group nevertheless sees "National Socialist Black Metal" as having strategic value, but only in the short term.

Neo-Nazis love uniformity and conformity on so many levels it's just crazy. Their attitude is the complete opposite of most Satanisms' emphasis on individuality and being true to ourselves.

As we have seen, Neo-Nazism places severe limitations on the freedom even of the people it's supposedly fighting for, namely white "Aryans." Obviously it's far worse for the freedom of people of other races, and for no good reason. It is far more consistent with the individualism of most forms of Satanism to judge people as individuals, rather than to place so much importance on groupings such as race.

If we happened to live in a situation where different ethnic groups were literally at war with each other, then, in that kind of situation, it might be necessary for individuals to be racist in order to survive. But, fortunately, most of us don't live in such a situation, at least not here in the U.S.A.; and I see nothing to be gained by trying to spark a race war. It seems to me that racism  -  and race war  -  are against the interests of all who value individual freedom.

Furthermore, if the neo-Nazis were ever actually to succeed in attaining power, Satanists probably would't be tolerated. In Germany in the 1920's and 1930's, there were quite a few occult groups that supported Hitler. But what did Hitler do when he attained power? He turned around and outlawed most of these occult groups (although the Nazi government itself, specifically the Ahnenerbe-SS, did do occult research). To me, it seems highly likely that the same would happen to neo-Nazi Satanists under a neo-Nazi regime.

Even today, there are plenty of neo-Nazis who exemplify the ultra-conformist, religiously intolerant attitudes that would likely typify any actual neo-Nazi regime, if such a regime were ever to come to power. For example, see the ANP (American Nazi Party) Report for March 07, 2006. Even Clifford Herrington, husband of Joy of Satan founder Maxine Dietrich, once made a speech about how the U.S.A. should be home only to "white European Christians!" (Here's an audio file containing a brief excerpt.) Herrington was chairman of the National Socialist Movement (NSM), which, according to the Anti-Defamation League, was "America's Largest Neo-Nazi Group" as of June 2006. Only a month later, the NSM fell apart when Clifford Herrington's connection to the Joy of Satan Ministries became public knowledge. (See Nazis Falling on the website of the Southern Poverty Law Center.) The most popular religion among neo-Nazis and other extremist White Nationalists, at least here in the U.S.A., is Christian Identity. For more about neo-Nazism's natural affinity for the more intolerant forms of Christianity, see my separate article on Nazism and Christianity.

In my opinion, Satanist neo-Nazis are almost as ridiculous as gay neo-Nazis, and for pretty much the same reason. (See The Fringe of the Fringe: Homosexual white supremacists, sneered at by their fellow racists, come out on the Net on the website of the Southern Poverty Law Center, Fall 2000. This article fails to distinguish between serious neo-Nazis and people who just have a fetish for Nati uniforms, but, incredibly, the real thing apparently does exist among some gays.)

Some neo-Nazis have used Satanism as a means of trying to recruit disaffected young people into the neo-Nazi movement. However, even today, most neo-Nazis do not approve of the idea of using Satanism as a way to appeal to "the youth."

Some neo-Nazi Satanists have argued that Satanists should support neo-Nazism because, if we don't like the Abrahamic religions, then we should hate the race of people amongst whom that religious tradition originated. But that's just silly. With some exceptions, liberal and nonreligious Jews tend to be among the most reliable and most active oppenents of theocracy, whether Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. So, insofar as we are concerned about our own religious freedom, we should regard many liberal and nonreligious Jews as potential allies, not as enemies. (For more reasons why it's silly for Satanists to be anti-Jew bigots, see my brief critique of anti-Jew racist ideology.)

A few other folks have argued, to Satanists, that we should be using the neo-Nazi movement or other extreme right wing movements toward some alleged "higher Satanic goals" involving an alleged "sinister dialectic" and "aeonics." I have to ask: Who is really using whom here? In most cases, the people who make such arguments also want us to get into violent criminal activities such as "human sacrifice"  -  by which they seem to mean lynching, primarily. Apparently these folks want Satanists to do the neo-Nazi movement's dirty work. (For some further comments on these folks, see the section on Satanism's criminal fringe in my article on Satanist superman syndrome.) Now, if we really want to oppose Abrahamic theocracy and advance our own religious freedom, it certainly does not help us to practice or advocate violent criminal activity in the name of Satan. Fortunately, the vast majority of Satanist leaders do realize this and do not encourage criminal activity.

Some have argued that Satanists should get involved in neo-Nazism on the grounds that political activism can benefit the individual by helping one to develop a lot of skills. Well, that is indeed true of political activism in general, but why should we get involved in neo-Nazism in particular? Why not a political movement whose goals would actually benefit us, such as defense of the rights of unpopular minority religions, or perhaps a more general opposition to the Christian religious right wing?

It doesn't seem to me that neo-Nazism advances any goal relevant to most forms of Satanism. It is unlikely that the individual Satanist would gain any benefit from participating in the neo-Nazi movement in particular, as distinct from other political movements (unless you happen to be either a musician or a distributor making money off the European black market for "National Socialist Black Metal"). Nor does neo-Nazism, with its focus on race, address the real collective threat that Satanists do face from the explosive worldwide growth of the more fanatical forms of the Abrahamic religions these past several decades. If anything it's counterproductive toward that end, because, as I mentioned earlier, liberal and nonreligious Jews tend to be among the staunchest and most politically mobilized oppenents of theocracy  -  as also are gay men, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgender people, another category of people whom most neo-Nazis target as enemies rather than as the natural potential allies they would be seen as by any politically sensible oppenent of theocracy.

As far as I can tell, the only thing Satanism and neo-Nazism really have in common is that they both attract young people who enjoy being shocking. However, kids with such a motive are unlikely to be serious about either their Satanism or their neo-Nazism, and they are unlikely to remain Satanists for very long. (Some kids are attracted to Paganism for this same reason, much to the annoyance of adult Pagans.)

Most forms of Satanism do encourage the exploration of all sorts of forbidden ideas. I personally think it's a very good intellectual exercise to try to understand assorted unpopular ideologies, including ideologies one finds personally repugnant - such as, for most of us, neo-Nazism. I once spent quite a bit of time studying neo-Nazi and other white nationalist websites to learn about their ideology. However, it's one thing to learn about it; it's quite another thing to support a movement whose success would plainly be against the best interests of Satanists.




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Re: Neo-Nazism in Satanism

Post by Justice on Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:54 pm

Interesting Points you point out there.
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Re: Neo-Nazism in Satanism

Post by electricwildflower on Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:01 pm

Well this was copy and pasted of the website stated i never really though of my views on Neo nazis much apart from i felt everyone is equal regardless of colour of skin. But after reading this as i knew little on Neo Nazi i do agree on alot of the points and from what was said i feel Neo-Nazi & Satanism is definitly a stupid combination that would never work properly.
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Re: Neo-Nazism in Satanism

Post by Phoenix on Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:16 pm

Even still its a very good point that needs to be looked at.

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Re: Neo-Nazism in Satanism

Post by electricwildflower on Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:08 pm

As we know Satan stands for things like freedom, individuality, and thinking for oneself yet Neo-Nazi stands for uniformity, conformity, Restricting Freedom which i feel goes against what Satanism is about and in a sense i find it rather stupid and down right blasphemous.

And of course i can never understand how one can be a Satanist yet be a Neo-Nazi which goes againsted the grain of what Satanism is about. If we are to follow freedom, individuality, and thinking for one self then we shouldn't be putting restrictions on the above things or supporting political persuasions that do this sort of thing.


But of course every Satanist is different and individual and we follow our own paths inlife just down the same road so to speak. I would like to hear from any Satanist that does actually follow Neo-Nazism and of course there views on it. Or anyone elses views that go againsted or support it would certainly give me a more better understanding on the subject. And of course would be a great way for anyone who has an interest to learn about it.

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